4 Ways SaaS PLM Transforms New Product Introduction

Will Corlass

Okay. I see we’ve got a decent number of you on the line, so we can get going. So good afternoon, good morning, good evening, everyone. Very good to have you with us for this webinar, on Four Ways SaaS PLM Transforms New Product Introduction. My name is Will Corlass. I’ll be acting as the moderator and presenter today.

And I’m, for those of you that don’t know me, responsible for sales across the U.K. and Northern Europe for Arena. I have my colleague with me, Markus Fleckenstein, who will introduce himself properly in a moment, that leads out solution consulting business here in EMEA. Between us, we have quite a few years’ experience in PLM and QMS. We’ve both been working with companies across high tech, consumer electronics, life science, medical device, retail, and consumer companies, so fairly broad experience in the space.

It’s great to see so many of you with us. We’ll try and make the most of the next 45 minutes or so. Just quickly on housekeeping, as there are so many of you, you’ll be on mute. You can add questions to the questions tab, which you should see in your admin panel. So please do so because we’ve got a Q&A at the end. And if you’re experiencing any technical difficulties, please do the same, and we’ll try and help you out. Okay.

So, we’ve got 45 minutes. We find in working with so many companies that are trying to bring products to market that however unique the product or the business is, there’s a fairly common set of challenges that we encounter. So I’ll start by outlining a few of those and then I’ll hand to Markus who will take you through some of the benefits of a best-in-class SaaS PLM-led approach, and focusing mainly on these areas. So, speed to market, global collaboration, driving profitability, and product quality and regulatory compliance.

As I said, we’ll leave some time at the end for Q&A, so please do add your questions in the Q&A tab.

So, whether it’s a company that’s trying to launch a new product to market, a first product, a brand-new product to market, or expanding a product range, the challenge is how to beat the competition in that race essentially, without compromising on product quality and ensuring that all regulatory requirements are met, which our customers face these challenges in getting to this point. And supply chain pressure is another common theme. So, the question’s always been how do we work more efficiently with our suppliers around the world?

But more recently, the global component shortage has been causing challenges as they relate to lead-time delays. And so we’re being asked regularly at the moment, how can PLM support us in addressing these challenges? Driving profitability. So, we work with companies that are growing fast, hiring more people, expanding their product ranges. And so the question is often, how do we put scalable processes in place now so that we ensure we don’t compromise on speed as we grow, but also product quality?

And managing all of this in a highly regulated world where the consequences of failure here are now so huge, whether it’s product quality, data protection, the net zero requirements, which we’ll start to see more of for all size of businesses, not just the biggest companies. So, very complex landscape. And we find it’s very common for this to be compounded by no central system to manage product development.

We often see this kind of a setup with product, quality, supplier information, all sitting in disconnected systems, often Excel, SharePoint, communication being managed solely over email, causing big inefficiencies and, essentially, no single source of truth is the crux of it and ability to trace within that. What’s happened, when, and be led by a central system in terms of driving a consistent best-in-class process. The external piece of this is important as well.

The external communication with suppliers managed in a similar way. Really important information, price information, componentry, lead-time information, all being shared externally with suppliers over email. Lots of data being sent back and forth, no traceability. And that often is a huge pressure and leads to delays and sometimes very costly errors in the product. And so, the accumulation of these things is a result, results in big challenges in speed, innovation, and effectively, the ability to scale the organization.

So I wanted to set the scene a little bit there. I think it’s a good place for Markus to pick up and talk you through how a best-in-class type approach to this can address the challenges. So Markus, floor is yours and I’ll pick back up at the end for the Q&A.

Markus Fleckenstein

Yeah. Thanks, Will. Thanks for setting the scene. And thanks for this introduction already. Maybe just as you proposed, just a few words about myself, although I’m based in Germany, now working for close to 11 years with PTC within the PLM space and supporting now the international solution consulting team when it comes to growth for Arena PLM. And so, as I said, working quite some time in that space, that universal challenge that Will has put on screen for sure is one thing that definitely can be addressed, on the one hand, for sure, with PLM.

And on the other side, for sure, with SaaS PLM. And the number one that we can see as a topic are areas that we have for sure, much more slicker approach, if we want to go to market so we can go to market faster.

Markus Fleckenstein

And this has two levels. I mean, on the one level, we see that … how PLM in general helps us to enable the connection of all different disciplines as though, that we move away from this challenge picture that we have seen on the slide earlier, to really having a single source of truth—and which allows us then to have everyone accessing the same information at the same point in time, everyone can be sure that it’s the latest information.

And we always have the possibility to connect all the different departments, different organizations, different sources together, and just not only when it comes to the material or everything that is around it, but also when it comes to quality, when it comes to the suppliers, so that we have that information all in a single spot where we can easily find it and then connect this information with this upstream data.

For example, coming from engineering design systems, coming out of the PDM world and bringing this into our PLM environment, and then also, downstream on the further connected systems like ERP or MES, which will leverage that data that is managed within PLM. But for sure, there is an additional layer to that, as I said. So, it’s not only PLM, it’s SaaS PLMs. And what does it mean when we talk about that and why does this bring an additional value and why does it help me to go to market faster?

So, depending on where we are in our product development process, if we were maybe just an early startup that wants to bring something quick to market, or if we have a new product line that we want to launch, then it’s important that we are fast, right? Can be quick. Can we quickly set up our processes that we don’t need to think about infrastructure at all? So that we don’t need to buy servers, which I guess is currently also quite a bit challenging to get everything available.

And for sure, it’s quite simple if you want to connect different people—if they don’t need to install something because they just access with app browser, so that we can quickly roll it out and leverage that existing functionality that a SaaS PLM solution brings that I can bring to life with very low effort. So, they just need to maybe configure a little bit, and I’m not stuck in huge customization project to make something work.

So with that, it’s really easy to be faster because you save a lot of time upfront and you don’t need to deploy complex processes because there are already best practices, processes that we can leverage. So that means, whereas having no PLM versus a PLM, for sure, there’s already a streamlining of internal processes and a reduction in acceleration of NPI versus a PLM to a SaaS PLM—there is, again, additional acceleration possible for going to market and for implementation.

When we talk about collaboration and go to market faster, then it’s important that it’s not only our internal collaboration and specifically, even if it’s internal, it’s not that we are just sitting on one spot, right?

Markus Fleckenstein

So that means in today’s world, I mean, locked in home office, or maybe spread across the globe, depending on the organization. So, there is a lot of need to collaborate globally and not … as an additional level, it’s not only internal, it’s also external collaboration. That means we really need to connect with all our supply chain partners, with our contract manufacturers, and with our internal teams, and enable us a real-time collaboration, really.

So that means having supply chain, being able to access the information when it’s required, but also, from the internal perspective, sharing information to suppliers, maybe even to multiple suppliers to figure out who has availability, who has components, who has everything available to get my production going? Or to get some quotes from a supplier. So really, to get as quick as possible, the information distributed and at the latest version.

This is one of the key benefits if you have an environment that is cloud-native, because you don’t need to really think about how do I bring a supplier into my own systems behind my firewalls, or how do I share data? Do I need to maybe send data across over different locations and replicate it there? So, we are really talking about a single source of truth that we have so that we can really see from more or less every part of the world, as long as we have an internet connection that every supplier, every internal personnel either in the shop floor or in quality of has access to that information and can make decisions if they are required.

And we don’t need to wait until someone on the other side of the world wakes up because the time zone differences. So, the information is there and we can act, and we can really actively work on that. So that’s definitely a key and this really gains productivity. And again, there is a productivity gain from no PLM to PLM, and then an additional level, if we go up to a SaaS PLM, that it helps us to easily include all the relevant people in the discussions that we need.

And with all that speed, for sure, and with all that increased collaboration and more productivity, for sure, that comes, profitability. And when we talk, think about how this NPI process with the SaaS PLM can really drive my profitability.

Markus Fleckenstein

And again, this brings us back to what we have seen earlier about speed and cost and effort. So that really allows us, with having a strong NPI process based on a SaaS PLM, that allows me to minimize my investment up front so that we don’t, as I said, we don’t need to spend money on huge implementation projects. We don’t need to spend a huge infrastructure. So, that means it’s available as we need it.

This not only reduces the investment, it also reduces the time. And over time, for sure, it maximizes my profit because I’m not relying again on maybe adding additional hardware because the user base is growing, or the data storage required needs to be increased and so on. So all of that is not required and that’s why it’s easy to be, let’s say, longer in the market, but also to have definitely lower cost and therefore, really higher profitability, because we are improving efficiency with that, we are reducing errors because we have full control over all versions of the information, and also having the continuous feedback to optimize our products, because we are connecting the different disciplines easily together, and this maybe helps us to speed up an initial launch, but also helps us to improve future products and to improve, let’s say, next-generation product launches.

So, very, very helpful. And so it really helps us to reduce a lot of manufacturing errors with SaaS PLM because everyone is informed and everyone is in line and everyone has a possibility to produce high-quality products, right? So that means when we talk about and then how to produce high-quality products and how to produce compliant products, then this has, again, a different angle to it—because again, sure, there might be quality management systems, there might be PLM systems that support me with that, but having this again in a single repository, that allows me easily to have a view on my product quality from a engineering perspective, but also have from an engineering perspective, the possibility to look into quality processes and to see how product performs.

Markus Fleckenstein

And if I recall, my history before I joined PTC, working in automotive, where we had to make a product audit ready when someone wants to see it, to run around and search all the relevant information to find what’s needed, having a system in place that already connects all those dots, that helps you to store the information in the latest version, in a single repository that’s really powerful.

And in all the common product regulations that you might need to fulfill. And also, from a quality perspective, and maybe also from an environmental compliance perspective, so that you’re really fulfilling all those regulatory needs, and you’ll have all those documentation and information at hand, and you can make adequate decisions based on all the data that is in a single spot.

On the other side, there is the software compliance in general. So, depending on the industry vertical maybe you are in, there might be different requirements when it comes to computer system validation, specifically, when we talk about a life science space where we need to have a validated system in place to make sure that intended use of the software is really fulfilled and everything is covered. And for that, when I recall back that whenever customers that were not upgrading their on-premises PLM system, because they will not have the time to, let’s say review their customizations, then update the systems, try to make the customizations work on the new system, and then having this huge effort of maintaining the validation, or maybe revalidating their whole PLM environment.

And though that’s a huge issue because you cannot leverage the latest information, the latest functionality, but also, if you do it, you have to take the validation effort. And what the SaaS companies typically do in that area is they’re providing the customers with a validation package on top of the existing subscription to that. So that means because within software as a service, the concept is to always be on the latest versions so that no one is left behind on an old version of the software.

There needs to be a simple way to do computer system validation. And this allows us to be fast and with low effort in that validation activity. So therefore, the typical approach is that there is … whenever a new update comes up, which is, so I only can speak for Arena, four times a year, the major upgrades. And so that means therefore, we provide upfront the relevant information that is required for validation.

So all the design specification, documentation, test cases, so that you get a full validation package as including the IQ and OQ documentation. And then based on the functionality that you implement, it is there. Or if you use that new functionality, you probably can do a risk-based approach to your validation. If you don’t use the new added functionality, which is by default, you will just stay on the way of working how you left it before the upgrade.

So, it’s not interfering with your implementation. But you are always safe because you will have all the relevant documentation already at hand. So this saves a lot of effort, a lot of money, and really allows you to have those both flavors to it. So really working on a compliant software environment, but also developing compliant products. So this is, I think, number four of our four ways how this improves NPI.

And again, this really helps you to support and to speed up processes and for sure, to save money and effort. If you would like to summarize the four of the five major topics that make up a SaaS PLM or multi-tenant SaaS PLM valuable, and what are the benefits?

Markus Fleckenstein

And I think touched already on most of them. So number one, I would say is speed. So, it’s quick and easy to set up. So, it doesn’t need a huge, long lead time to get a project going. And it doesn’t need a long time to get everything, get the system up and running. So this is basically already there. It just needs to be instantiated and made available for the users. The second huge benefit I would say is low cost, or maybe you would say predictable cost because there is another surprising cost because the license model is fixed.

And if we think about what you will need to do if you host or if you implement a software in-house, what you have to prepare on top of just purchasing licenses, which is what all the infrastructure underneath and resources that maintain this infrastructure, security resources, and so on. So, this is something that you need to have included in your cost calculations. And this is what completely falls away if you go with a SaaS solution.

So, all the infrastructure upgrade costs and everything, but also as we are looking towards the configuration approach and starting with templates and the quick-start packages that allow you to have a very quick implementation and you are not lost in huge customization projects where it’s hard to figure out when to end with a SaaS solution, you have those configuration possibilities, which allows you to start with a pre-configured set and then do the tweaks as needed.

But this will give you a very much shorter time and lower costs for the implementation, which then always helps to quicker adopt the system software, right? So, if it’s easy to implement, if it’s easy to roll out, if you don’t need to install any clients or anything, then it’s really easy to have people jumping on and working on it. So that really allows to enhance the collaboration and internally and externally, right?

So, one of the key benefits there. Number four, I would say the upgrades topic. I think I mentioned it on the validation side already. So having all the upgrades included in your subscription package, so you don’t need to worry about … have a process or a project in place, have resources in place to do the upgrade. It’s like on a Monday morning, the new version will be available.

So that means everyone is on that latest version. So you really, you have the possibility to easily use new available functionality, right as you go, without any effort. And on number five, the availability portion, I mean, though you are not responsible for the availability of the system because that’s handled by the folks that are managing the software. So that’s a very simple recipe, let’s say. So you just have an SLA in place and you rely on that.

You have the software whenever you need it. You don’t need to think about when this is on, when it would have an issue, do I need to call internally? Because the provider of the environment is really keen on having this up and running all the time, because there are multiple customers working with the same environment. Therefore, it’s always on, it’s everywhere available, and it is a really secure infrastructure, which means in this case, that you don’t need to think about how to make the environment safe, because this is, again, done by the guys who are handling that on a global scale.

The good thing is that multi-tenant SaaS is not something new, but I think now, everything is shifting towards that.

Markus Fleckenstein

So that means it’s not only our impression.

Markus Fleckenstein

We can see here statement from Deloitte saying, as I said, from the old paradigm, updating it every couple of years, where now, is having it up and running when I need it and having everything in place. So that’s really … saying SaaS is the future of PLM, but maybe not only PLM, it’s general, the future of software, because you just buy as you need it. This is, as I said, probably even if it’s now getting more momentum, it’s not something that is brand new.

If you look into the existing customer base of Arena, there have already been a couple of customers that were going that path quite early and maybe, Will, you can give us some insights on what they have done, why they have chosen that way, and what they have achieved by doing that?

Will Corlass

Yeah. Thanks, Markus. I think that the main message here is that we’ve got some fantastic customers at Arena that are doing some amazing things.

Will Corlass

So you can see here, a few examples, big improvements in speed to market.

Will Corlass

The data accuracy and trust thing’s massive. So that’s really kind of knowing that the data that you are looking at in the system is the latest version of that data, so that you can make decisions and action that immediately without having to look for the right version of the truth and ensure that you can rely on the data. Huge benefit in that sense. Big improvements in kind of error reduction, you can see there, and improvements in productivity as well. And I’d say the common denominator here is that most Arena customers, and these three included, are companies that are needing to constantly innovate, constantly bring new products to market quickly to stay ahead of the competition.

And we’re fortunate to work with some great brands and Arena’s a key tool in helping them do that. So, if you do want to find out a bit more, discuss any of this in more detail, you know where Markus and I are, please do reach out to us, and we’d be happy to discuss this in the context of your business.

Will Corlass

We’ve got about 1,300 customers globally now using Arena across the industries you can see.

Will Corlass

So connected platforms, high-tech consumer products, life science, medical device, A&D. So, it’s pretty broad. We have got 220 customers now in Europe. And so, as part of the PTC acquisition, we’ve built a full-service team here to support customers directly. We’ve stood up an EU environment, an EU hosted environment of Arena as part of this. And we are now providing all of the service around that. So the deployment, the onboarding through to go live, business as usual. We’ll support you from start to finish.

So, it’s a full-service offering here, and it’d be great to hear from you if it’s something you want to explore for your business. So, questions. There’s quite a few that have come in. So Markus, I’m going to ask you to put your camera back on and we can divvy these up.

Will Corlass

So question one, I can take this one.

Will Corlass

So, how quickly can it be implemented and what are the implementation costs involved? So, as this is a multi-tenant SaaS solution, we’re able to deploy it fairly, fairly quickly. So as Markus said, we have a set of pre-defined templates that we essentially have built over the years with customers that new customers can use to adopt best practices. And it means that most customers are going live with about 80% or so totally out of the box and only needing to tweak about 20% to fit their specific requirements versus the kind of the traditional way of starting with a blank sheet of paper and asking what is it we need to build?

So, it flips the whole process. On average, we’d see a implementation time taking from 16 to 20 weeks for full PLM. Some customers start smaller, they just want to get the bill of materials in place and some control around that, and then build up and add suppliers and quality and downstream capabilities as they grow. But really, we can be flexible, and we tend to agree the best approach with each business based on what they need. There was a cost aspect to that, the second part of the question. So cost wise, it’d be good to talk to you offline to understand what your needs are, but it’s straightforward on our side.

It’s a single software subscription. We have a few packages. We have a PLM package, a PLM and QMS package, and a medical device package. Each of them has a few different user types, but it is a single subscription, so predictable cost. And then there’s a one-off fee for implementation and training, which is the service we would offer and deploy with you. And we offer that as a fixed price, essentially. So, to de-risk it for you, and as a customer, and help you get up and running essentially.

Okay. Product question, Markus.

Will Corlass

This one you can take.

Will Corlass

So, if we let contract manufacturers log into Arena to work with us, do they see all of our IP?

Markus Fleckenstein

I mean, the clear answer is: It depends. I would say because the idea of working within Arena is really to make definitely clear who can see what, and then you can define who can see which information, for sure. I mean, if you share all the IP with your contract manufacturer, sure, you can see it, but that’s probably not what you want. So that’s why you can’t really decide very granular, who should see what? Even what documents will be shared?

Markus Fleckenstein

Will any product information be shared?

Markus Fleckenstein

On which level would it be shared? Will it be only the top level or the bottom? Or will it be the full bill of material? As an example. So it’s really, let’s say configurable, or you can define, maybe not even configurable, it’s even more to that, that you can, on a product basis, on an object basis, you can decide if it should be shared or not. And if it would be available to the contract manufacturer or not.

Will Corlass

Thanks, Markus. Question on upgrades here. So, these were coming in as you were going through your slides. If upgrades are required, how are these implemented and how much do they cost? So I think we’ve kind of touched on that, but I can take it. So, as this is multi-tenant SaaS, customers are always on the latest version of the software. So when we release new capabilities, which is four times a year, for example, it’s typically two big releases, two smaller. You as a customer have the option to turn those capabilities on and it’s included in your software subscription.

So essentially, it means that your software subscription remains flat, unless you, of course, are adding users and incremental users. And of course, not factoring in any annual price increases, which are fairly standard, but your software price remains predictable every year, but your ROI continues to increase. So as you adopt more and more capabilities, those capabilities make you faster to market and it gives you competitive advantage. So the upgrading piece is really a big differentiator, I would say, for our customers in their markets.

Okay. One for you, Markus. So how can I know that you can handle my company’s organizational change processes?

Markus Fleckenstein

I mean, first of all, without knowing your organizational change process, it might be hard to judge, but generally speaking, there haven’t been a change process that we haven’t been able to cover so far. So, it should be possible. But I mean, we can take this offline, if you want to touch base on that with us, happy to walk you through all the change process capabilities that we have as Arena, and then try to understand how this maps with yours so that we can find a way, but in general, I would say I’m happy to tell you how it can do that.

But therefore, I need to understand it a little bit more.

Will Corlass

Okay. Question: What is the predicted amount of downtime users can expect from a SaaS PLM as opposed to an on-premises? Okay, I can take that. So, we can speak for Arena, I guess. So our most recent uptime report is showing 99.99% availability over the last 12 months. So, very high. Literally nearly always on. With on-premises, this is achievable as well, of course, but would definitely require very robust IT architecture, infrastructure, the teams, importantly, to deploy that on-site for you.

Maintain it, monitor it, make sure it’s delivering the SLA that you require and support it, upgrade it when you need to. So it might be possible, but it’s a big investment to do. So, we offer an SLA of 99.5%. So if we drop below that in a quarter, we provide customers with service credits in return, so that adds a layer of protection and assurance as well. But like I say, we’ve seen very high availability in the last 12 months, so we haven’t had to do that. Okay.

Question on engineering change orders. So, for ECOs, engineering change orders, can reviewers do their reviews in parallel or is it sequential?

Markus Fleckenstein

Very technical, I would say, but yes, it can be both. The engineering change orders are configurable and you can define if they need to run in sequence or in parallel, if who needs to review and approve at what stages. So it’s quite flexible, but again, happy to show this in a demonstration probably. Harder to explain verbally than showing this into a demonstration. So, if you want to see that, happy to take this in a one-on-one presentation.

Will Corlass

Yeah. Makes sense. Another one on costs here. What are the cost differences with SaaS PLM compared to on-premises in terms of buying the solution? So, I’d say three big differences. One would be the services associated with implementation and training. That will be significantly lesser than an on-premises—or a single tenant even—solution where you’re building your own environment. So again, because it’s pre-configured, no customization, it’s easy to use as well, so the training requirements are lesser.

We can deploy the system in a multi-tenant environment much quicker, and hence, the cost is lesser. So that’s number one. Number two would be the upgrading piece again. You don’t need to worry about paying for a consulting project to lift and shift your solution to the latest version once every two years or so. You don’t need to do it. We do that for you in a multi-tenant environment. And the third would be IT infrastructure. So, the hardware that you would require on your site to host an enterprise system like this, especially as you’re growing at scale, is a huge investment and not just in the hardware, but as I say, the resources to manage the security, the availability, the support.

So, a huge expense. So I’d say they’re the three. Services for implementation, upgrading, and IT infrastructure. How are we doing for time? We’ve got some more time. If we don’t get through all of these questions as well, we can follow up with you. What integrations are available with SaaS PLM? Markus, do you want to take that or …

Markus Fleckenstein

Should I take that? I can go for it. Yeah. I mean, in general, again, speaking for Arena, having a REST-based API I think is a key functionality to make any kind of integrations possible. That gives a lot of flexibility. Nevertheless, for Arena, we have a couple of already pre-configured integrations. We want to know a bit more about the different types of integration that we have there, easily definable on our website on the integrations.

In general, it is about connecting downstream with ERP system or MES. Therefore, a couple of integrations are available. For example, to SAP or Sage or Acumatica. And also, let’s say having integrations to design tools. For example, SOLIDWORKS is quite an important thing. And therefore, there’s also the possibility, let’s say with a standard integration, to connect with Salesforce or others.

So, for detailed list, just have a look at our website. If not there what you’re looking for, I’m happy to discuss with you. And also, maybe it’s worth looking into the REST interface capabilities that allows to build custom integrations if needed.

Will Corlass

Thanks, Markus.

Markus Fleckenstein

You’re welcome.

Will Corlass

There are a few others on here. Fairly technical question. What processes are in place to ensure data is just as secure as an on-premises solution? I said, we can pick this up with you. There’s lots of documentation, again, on our site from a security perspective, and the controls that you would have in a multi-tenant environment within an AWS and best-in-class AWS and best-in-class system provider are really high. I mean, the data is as secure as it can be in the Cloud or out of the Cloud, and there’s lots of documentation to support that that we can share. So, we’ll take note of that.

One more product one here, Markus. Can Arena manage alternate parts?

Markus Fleckenstein

Simple answer is yes.

Will Corlass

So, these product questions, we can follow up with those that have asked. So, we can find out a bit more about what your needs are and show you how the system can support that. I think we’re getting through these. Can Arena manage packaging and the documentation that goes in the box?

Markus Fleckenstein

I mean, Arena is capable of managing basically all the information that you need to describe your product and that you maybe need to even submit to a regulatory body.

Markus Fleckenstein

So that means everything that is somehow describing your product from the bill of material, including all the documentation, all the packaging information, this could all make up your full, let’s call it bill of information. So really put everything together and then have this in a single repository link together that it can be extracted, exported, shared, whatever’s required. So yes, it can.

Will Corlass

Okay. Another question, how hard is it to migrate legacy product data into Arena? It’s a good question. So, this is something we support with as part of the implementation. Typically, the effort on the customer side is to get your data in the right format so we can import it. On the Arena side, it’s straightforward. We have tools, import tools that help with that. And solution architect would support you. This is in the case of Arena, we’d provide a solution architect to support you with getting the data into the right format and understanding, importantly, what data you would want to import.

It really depends on whether you want to import all of your legacy data, or some customers decide to import just some and really focus on their new products from the point of implementation. But we have the tools to do it and we’d support you in doing it. There’s a blog as well, I think on the website, that we can share on this because yeah, it’s an important part of the implementation. Okay. I think we’ve got through all of the questions. How are we doing for time? Nearly bang on. I think we can give you three minutes back or two minutes back, because I think we can wrap up here.

Again, our contact details are on the screen now. You’ll be receiving a follow-up and a thank-you for attending, with the details as well.

Will Corlass

So, if you want to discuss any of this in more detail, you know where we are. Thank you very much for joining us. We hope to see you on the next one as well and take care, everybody, and thanks.